Patrick Aljord

Greg said on 2009-09-27 23:28:23 UTC:

have fun reinventing the wheel...

btw what freedom do you lack with stackoverflow.com? what's wrong with offering help to the original project instead of doing a free (as in autocracy) clone?

Patrick Aljord said on 2009-09-27 23:29:04 UTC:

Well, for one it offers more topics than stackoverflow which is limited to programming. Second, autocracy? really? lol

Ramsees said on 2009-09-27 23:29:36 UTC:

I aplaud your effort but I think it will follow the same path of identi.ca being the underdog of twiter, in your case the underdog from stackoverflow.

Maik said on 2009-09-27 23:31:09 UTC:

@Greg

I like identi.ca over twitter, because twitter lacks groups. If twitter adds groups this might change. But hey, maybe they will do this because of identi.ca. You get the idea?

Competion is always good. Think of how much MS.Office would cost without OpenOffice around. And how much would a car cost if only one Company would build them!

But this is the worst case scenario. My best wishes for success to the shapado team.

Patrick Aljord said on 2009-09-27 23:31:53 UTC:

@Greg did you check http://stackexchange.com/ ? If the price are any indication, I think it's a safe bet to say that they will never open source stackoverflow. Also, I updated the post to say that we did it to test our mongodb+rails stack so we were not wasting our time :P

@Maik exactly, maybe we'll bring SO prices down but I doubt it :)

Robert Knight said on 2009-09-27 23:32:28 UTC:

> Well, for one it offers more topics than stackoverflow
> which is limited to programming.

StackOverflow's focus on programming is arguably a strength. It means that the site's audience has a clear idea of what they can discuss and who they will be talking with. From the developer's point of view it means that they have a very clear idea of who their audience are and what they want out of the site - starting with a suitable, catchy name. This makes it much easier to decide what features are needed and which are not. Now it turns out that the StackOverflow concept works with domains other than programming - but when starting out I'll bet it was a useful restriction to have.

It is a typical programmer's mindset to take an idea and then see how to generalize it. That won't necessarily translate into something that users want though.

I'll finish with some suggestions:

1. You may have seen this already, if not - there is a blog post from the SO creators on FLOSS alternatives to SO:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001284.html

2. On my 900px high screen about half of the page is taken up with the 'header' - that is, the questions start half-way down the page. I suggest making the header much smaller vertically.

3. Search is a very important part of SO - a prominent search engine with good ranking of results is a must.

4. StackOverflow.com's page design is very clean with minimal clutter/borders etc. which I think is quite appealing to programmers. The current Shapado design has quite a lot of visual noise.

5. StackOverflow.com includes a nice clear box on the right-hand side explaining what the site is/does in a short sentence. On Shapado its there but right at the bottom of the page.

Max Howell said on 2009-09-27 23:33:54 UTC:

StackOverflow is an excellent resource for programming questions.

Shapado will be a mediocre resource for everything.

There is a reason successful products specialise.

Patrick Aljord said on 2009-09-27 23:35:26 UTC:

@Max Howell reddit, digg and yahoo answer are successful and don't specialize so your argument doesn't stand. Also you can install shapado on your own server, the goal of shapado is not to take over the world but to offer a personalized solution. Don't like it? Don't use it :p

Max Howell said on 2009-09-27 23:41:15 UTC:

I'd argue all of those products specialize. Digg doesn't allow you to vote up electronic products, or presidential candidates. You can only vote up websites. Etc.

Still I agree most rules of thumb can turn out to be wrong, it depends on the circumstances. So good luck to you.

piehead said on 2009-09-27 23:44:42 UTC:

@Patrick: I thought Yahoo Answers specialized in how babby is form.

Patrick Aljord said on 2009-09-27 23:45:00 UTC:

@piehead that too :)

Mike Arthur said on 2009-09-27 23:46:34 UTC:

What a waste of time. Seriously, Stack Overflow already has freed all it's data and they've talk about intending on open-sourcing it when it makes sense.

Why are you using Twitter if you care about open-source web frameworks anyway?

Yet another open-source person insists on reinventing the wheel yet again.

Tom Arnold said on 2009-09-27 23:49:28 UTC:

Mike, take your negativity elsewhere. There is no harm in choice. Stay with SO if you like. There is nobody stopping you.

Gen2ly said on 2009-09-27 23:50:59 UTC:

Hey, this is awesome. I gotta say though that stack overflow is awesome. That said though, some of the admins there are just no fun and some will rename, edit posts, edit tags without consent or even do it incorrectly. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this.

kdeuser said on 2009-09-27 23:52:31 UTC:

I wonder why kde developers are attacking this new foss project so hard
Max Howell, Patick Aljord, Robert Knight, Mike Arthur shame on you.

Mike Arthur said on 2009-09-27 23:52:58 UTC:

Shame on us? At least we've actually offered constructive criticism (arguably mine is the least constructive). When stuff gets posted on Planet KDE it's going to get KDE developers' attention. Some of that attention may be negative.

One of the most shameful things on the internet is hiding behind an anonymous handle like "kdeuser" when everyone else in a discussion is using their real names.

Jeff Atwood is aware of shapado and is trying to work out a plan of what to do. You are now in direct competition with Stack Overflow and they have a lot more business sense and experience than you. Good luck, you'll need it.

Eddie Williams said on 2009-09-27 23:54:58 UTC:

Agreed, Mike and some others need to take a chill-pill. I was brought up that if you have nothing nice to say (or constructive) then better say nothing at all. Stomping on the first steps of enthusiasm of others is hardly christian. Think on young man.

Tom Arnold said on 2009-09-27 23:55:26 UTC:

Or just look at your Jeff Atwood pinup posters for a while longer :P Which is probably a better use of your time than posting here.

Tom Arnold said on 2009-09-28 00:03:00 UTC:

Mike, you come across as some kind of rabid Jeff Atwood fanboy and things like "What a waste of time" and "Good luck, you'll need it" are not constructive(check Wikitionary).
If stuff like this makes you depressed you should consider another hobby.

And there is definitely a point to this project. If you want to host yourself or you want to customize and like rails etc.

Remember: It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. (Mark Twain)

Mike Arthur said on 2009-09-28 00:04:32 UTC:

Eddie and Tom: I feel what I said was constructive. Stuff like this just makes me depressed about the state of open-source. We have so many passionate and talented developers and we insist on imitating rather than innovating and spending time writing inferior clones to non-open software that works perfectly well. In this case Stack Overflow is free to use and the data is freely available and CC-licensed. Jeff has said he wants to open-source it in the future.

Eddie: Bringing my religion or age into it just makes your attack ad hominem and massively reduces the chance of it actually being listened to.

Also, my question wasn't answered on why Twitter is being used as that isn't OSS and it's data is far less liberally licensed than Stack Overflow.

I see from the recent edit this is just a fun project and not an attempt to topple Stack Overflow with an OSS version. In that case fair enough and good luck but I'd advise you to make your design less derivative to avoid allegations of copyright infringement.

Eddie Williams said on 2009-09-28 00:05:33 UTC:

@Mike I apologize but (and you can choose to believe this or not) I had no idea you were an avowed "Christian" until I clicked through to your website to work out what you were going on about. I was using the phrase in its little 'c' form which in the UK at least doesn't have a connotation as to belief systems but rather speaks to the moral framework (which one can debate if they come from a book or arise naturally in a society) which is followed in polite society. Again apologies if for some reason you thought this a personal attack on your beliefs, though I try to treat people on their actions rather than the labels they apply to themselves so I could care less if you worshipped the Moon, each to their own and even better if they help the needy.

I'm off to make a cup of tea and stop myself wasting my lunch hour providing counter examples to your rather condescending "spending time writing inferior clones to non-open software" assertion.

Peace out. Eddie W.

Mike Arthur said on 2009-09-28 00:06:15 UTC:

Eddie: Cheers, I've just had a few attacks from within the KDE community on my faith so I just assumed that. If you didn't know then no worries and I apologise also.Eddie: Cheers, I've just had a few attacks from within the KDE community on my faith so I just assumed that. If you didn't know then no worries and I apologise also.

Mike Arthur said on 2009-09-28 00:08:11 UTC:

Tom: Apologies, my "depressed" comment was just a figure of speech. My hint to copyright infringement isn't stupid, I've seen people sued for less.Tom: Apologies, my "depressed" comment was just a figure of speech. My hint to copyright infringement isn't stupid, I've seen people sued for less.

Tom Arnold said on 2009-09-28 00:08:48 UTC:

Mike sorry, but I really don't like you discouraging comments and stupid hints to copyright infringement etc. If you are depressed you don't have to attack the work of others. You should ask for help or just cheer up.

The internet is a big place and there is definitely place for a Franklin street free SO-like site that can serve any purpose and is multilanguage.

I am German and I often think everybody can speak English, but that is just not the case. For that reason sites like http://codekicker.de/ although very new were able to attract quite a following in a very short time.

Shapado will enable even smaller communities to do the same. That is a 100% good thing.
And from the looks of it SO will not be open source without a lot of pressure from competition and IMHO it is not likely to be open any time soon.

Mike Arthur said on 2009-09-28 00:09:25 UTC:

Tom, I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I'm far from a rabid Atwood fanboy, I just think that Stack Overflow is a great system and fragmentation damages community-oriented sites. Again, more time is spent attacking me and less attacking my argument.

Thanks for calling me a fool as well, that's appreciated.

Patrick Aljord said on 2009-09-28 00:14:18 UTC:

Mike, why can't it be a replacement of SO? I'm not talking about stackoverflow.com the website and community, but the software being used. Now everybody is free to install their own version on their company or community server, that's pretty cool IMO. I'm sure there were many proprietary forums before phpbb and they probably had huge community, then phpbb was created and everybody was able to install their own phpbb on their company or (sometimes tiny) community server, you know... like KDE!

Mike Arthur said on 2009-09-28 00:14:59 UTC:

I'm not saying it can't be but, like Identi.ca, I really don't it will be because both sites rely on having a single-unified community to have the greatest benefits to the user. Arguably, Stack Overflow is currently superior and I doubt Jeff and Joel will allow an open-source clone to take their market share lying down. They will either sue for and copyright/patent violations or they will simply open-source Stack Overflow.

David Cuadrado said on 2009-09-28 00:15:52 UTC:

Mike, we are using github, twitter and identica, even we use stackoverflow. so what? we are not fanboys.

I am the shapado's original author. initially, I started to write this project to test(and help it me to write) mongomapper (http://github.com/dcu/mongomapper), it was not supposed to be released, but then it get "bigger" and we decided to release it.
In fact, we have many projects like this that we haven't released (and we won't release) however there were strong reasons to release this one.

that said, if you don't like this project please feel free to ignore it. also if we are violating your copyright let us know, we will change that, there's no need to offend us.

Mike Arthur said on 2009-09-28 00:16:27 UTC:

David: As of "Edit 2" and your explanation I have no problem with this project. However, initially (as mine and the first few comments highlight) this was pitched as a FOSS replacement to Stack Overflow. This I don't agree with. However, as a something that lives alongside with it I have any real problem with. I still think your time could perhaps be spent more productively elsewhere but it it's mostly just a learning exercise then that's fine. I wasn't accusing you of violating my copyright but just warning you that Stack Overflow could do so.

Patrick Aljord said on 2009-09-28 00:17:03 UTC:

identi.ca doesn't need to have a single-unified community to work, for example I can follow my friend that has his own identi.ca using my identi.ca url http://www.belfalas.org/main/remote?nickname=flink . So no need for a centralized identi.ca to make the thing work.

> They will either sue for and copyright/patent violations or they will simply open-source Stack Overflow.

Ok, I hope you do realize that SO is itself a clone of digg which is itself a clone of slashdot etc. Also check how facebook has been copying friendfeed even before buying it. There is no way SO can sue us also we don't live in the US, where we live there is not patent on software (and patents don't have anything to do with the matter, so do copyrights), maybe LnF but then again, look at digg and the hundreds of voting sites.

Finally, even if they open source it, it runs on .Net, and so installing it would still require a lot of licensing to be paid, not free as in beer or freedom :)

Mike Litoris said on 2009-09-28 00:17:28 UTC:

are you kidding? they will not release stackoverflow, Mr Arthur *is* indeed a Joel fanboy.

Mike Hawk said on 2009-09-28 00:44:46 UTC:

@Mike Litoris I totally agree with you.

chris said on 2009-12-22 07:43:02 UTC:

What about integrating it into the KDE Plasma Desktop (as a standard widget) where (new) users (to Linux and KDE) can simply ask questions. This Widget should automatically add tags like Distro, Kernel, Language .... It would be useful if there is some algorithm which compares the Questions and suggest similar Questions before adding a new one. And it should be really simple that very DAU can understand it. And because everybody can set up his own shapado server in an corporate network there could be a central server for example after migrating from win to lin where employes could ask questions.

Brandon said on 2009-12-22 07:43:02 UTC:

Thank you for your effort!

David said on 2009-12-22 17:56:38 UTC:

@chris yeah integration with KDE is planned :D

Matchu said on 2009-12-22 17:56:38 UTC:

My general thought is that this project will not stand well on its own as a website, but will be excellent for those who have been looking for a StackOverflow-type solution to install and modify for their own purposes.

To that end, it will serve excellently, and the criticism becomes irrelevant :) Thanks - I've been looking for something like this.

http://steven.lawrance.id.au/id/ said on 2009-12-22 17:56:38 UTC:

Even if Stack Overflow were open sourced, it would be useless to most of those interested in Shapado (or any free "clone") -- it's written in some kind of .Net rubbish...

Wahrsagen said on 2010-02-07 14:36:10 UTC:

Excuse me for writing OFF TOPIC - what WP template do you use? It looks interesting!!

obvio171 said on 2010-02-13 17:40:38 UTC:

Great initiative guys!! I think Shapado could have a really good future, not as much as a replacement of SO but as a replacement of StackExchange (SE).

One suggestion I would leave in that regard is to keep it as close to the "original" as possible, so that later on people can import their SE data into their own Shapado instances.

I imagine once SE starts actually charging for use a lot of people won't be able to afford it and will look for an alternative. You have a big opportunity there.

Cheers,

Helder

jablan said on 2010-02-17 16:17:52 UTC:

Hi all and thanks for this piece of software! A question:

How easy you think it would be to replace MongoMapper with ordinary ActiveRecord-based stack? Any particular reason (except that you wanted to test MM) that MM is better suited for this type of application (especially for the smaller traffic levels)?

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Mike said on 2010-05-07 21:45:16 UTC:

Well, all the "haters" of Shapado who said that a) it's a waste of time to do a clone/open source project like this and b) you should be spending your time on something innovative should now pull their feet out of their collective mouths. StackExchange is no longer free to start. StackOverflow is now $6MM richer and could care less about the "small guys" (you and me wanted to start a cool Q&A site). Now we have an alternative. Now Shapado can step-up and fulfill a real need. Congrats to Shapado. Keep up the great work!

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Ned said on 2010-07-10 06:00:05 UTC:

What benefits does Mongo bring?

You are not embedding documents for the main models. Which I thought was the main highlight of Mongo?

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